Season 2 Episode 18 | Dr. Rachel Brandoff | Networking: Redefining Our Approach to an Oft Dreaded Process

Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Creative Psychotherapist podcast.

I am really excited to share this conversation with you, with a friend and colleague.

Somebody that I respect very much. If you've been a long time listener, then you may have heard a few other episodes with her on the show earlier on in the podcast development.

So today you're going to be listening to a conversation with Rachel, Brandoth and I.

And we were talking about how challenging networking can be and it doesn't seem to matter if you're

in private practice for yourself or if you're working at an agency where that may be part

of your job or even in higher education.

There can be a lot of kind of sales requirements for the work that you're doing.

And we thought, you know, maybe we should have a conversation of how we can think about

this in a different way and make it more palatable for people.

And so if you hate networking or you think you hate networking or it feels really uncomfortable,

maybe this episode will be helpful. And without further ado, I'll have you take a listen.

And you'll let me know.

Now here's your host, Raina Lombardi.

Thanks for listening to the Creative Psychotherapist podcast.

I'm your host, Raina Lombardi and I'm really excited to welcome back Dr. Rachel Brandoff

to the show. If you're a long time listener, then you'd likely heard her as a guest in the past, but she

also interviewed me once for the show. And so I'll give you a little bit of an introduction about Dr. Brandoff.

She's a registered board certified art therapist, a credentialed art therapy supervisor and

she is an associate professor and coordinator of the Art Therapy Concentration in the community

and trauma counseling program at Thomas Jefferson University.

Dr. Brandoff maintains a clinical practice specializing with individuals who are coming out and coping with trauma. She provides supervision and consultation to art therapists and professional counselors.She's served on the boards of various professional organizations, is a regular presenter at regional and national conferences. Her first book, Quick and Creative Art Projects for Creative Arts Therapists with very limited budgets was published in 2019.

And she is currently the co-author of the Empowerment Wheel, helping clients heal from relationship

abuse, which comes out in early 2024 and is available for pre-order now on Amazon.

And we'll have the link to that in the show notes. However, later on in the season, I'll be interviewing her and her co-author about the book and how it could be beneficial for clinicians that are listening and how they can utilize

that to enhance their practice. So without further ado, thank you, Rachel, for being willing to talk with me again.

Absolutely.

Thanks for having me back. So today we thought it would be a good idea to talk about something that very many therapists struggle with, especially as it pertains to developing their own, I think they're marketing self.

There's the therapist self that is providing the therapeutic and clinical work, but there's

also this marketing self that we have to develop as clinicians if we're in private practice

or I think even in some cases in your area where you've spent a lot of time in academia that

marketing oneself and networking becomes really important if you're an author.

Even though that might not be your main job, it certainly plays a role in how well your

books are received and purchased and that kind of thing. Absolutely.

You know, we didn't go to school for marketing and yet it is such an integral part of everything

we do in this world, which sometimes can feel a little bit icky like I didn't get into this work to be in sales.

But I tell my students and supervisees, you could be doing the greatest most important work

in the world, but if nobody knows about it, how great is it.

And without fail, a conversation that I have had so many times with students and supervisees,

professionals who are relatively new in the field, sometimes right out of their master's

degree, I say to them, you need to start networking. And they say, oh, I knew you were going to say that or I hoped you weren't going to say That. I don't want to have to hear that.

And sometimes I think they erroneously believe that, well, I already found a job or I have

a job and I even like it and I could see myself staying here for a while.

And I'm doing the work so isn't that enough. Why do I also have to put myself out there and network?

It's one of those things that always sounds so painful. I know. I think I hear this too in consultation work when I'm helping other people get started in their private practice. There's a lot of resistance around networking. And what do you think that relates to? Why do we feel resistance around this particular task?

That's such a good question. And not one that I'm sure I have an answer to.

I do think it ties in with a few things. It, calling something networking makes it feel like we're turning what could otherwise be a social encounter into work. And that can be distressing when we often don't even get enough social encounters in our lives that are just connecting with another human being.

Because it can feel like, I'm not on the job right now. I'm not seeing clients. I'm not teaching a class.

I'm not advising a student. I'm not doing the work of my work.

So I really want to be off the clock and not have to, we do talk a lot about maintaining

our boundaries and self-care and that work life balance.

And also that distinction of when is the work time and when is the lifetime gets muddy

if you think about everything as a networking opportunity. And to some degree, I think that's not a bad thing, right?

Life is muddy. This idea that you're going to be at work and you're doing your work or you're going to

be not at work and you're not going to be doing your work and there's going to be this

clean and clear distinction is maybe a myth.

Now, I agree. I think that it's easy to want to compartmentalize things into those categories because it seems

easier to wrap our mind around. And I think there's also this thing of like, I don't necessarily want to be on.

But if we were to shift our perspective about how we're viewing the networking process,

I think it does make it more manageable. You know, like if you say your kids are in soccer and you're hanging out at the soccer field with the other families, you know, that is an opportunity to network.

If you are serving children, perhaps you wouldn't be able to serve their children directly.

But chances are because they have kids, they're talking with other families too.

And they might be a potential referral source, you know, for the services that you offer.

Or, you know, maybe you wrote a particular book on parenting or like parenting for a child

with a particular condition that they know somebody who's experiencing and that it's

not so much the main focus.

It just happens to be a way that you're like sharing information about what you do with

other people. But I also think it's an opportunity to learn more about those people that you're with.

Like, well, could they potentially be a resource for you in your work in terms of how you

make referrals? Absolutely. I think that, gosh, what you said brings up a lot of thoughts in my mind.

I think that, you know, this wanting to keep things separate, this boundary like I'm at work

here and I'm not at work here, partly comes into wanting to feel like we're not working

all the time, which is a good thing, right?

We definitely don't want that. When I go to the park to take my kids to soccer, I don't want to feel like I'm working.

That's my weekend. That's my kid time. So if I, if I'm viewing networking from the standpoint of I need to be on, I need to meet people, I need to tell people what I'm doing, I need to find a referral stream.

You know, if that's the way I'm viewing my networking goals, then I really am working in a way

that's not what I want to be doing on my Saturday morning.

On the other hand, if I am viewing things more from, if I'm living my personal and professional

life more, I don't know if authentically is the word, but more in integrated, maybe more

integrated, more where I'm presenting as that same person in both forums than that networking

component feels less like work. It can organically come up that this is what I'm working on and this is what I'm doing

if it feels appropriate, but it doesn't have to be push. And I think that that can be really valuable.

Of course, right, you and I know that because we've both been in a situation of having immense

rewards come from networking people in places that we didn't expect to be making connections.

So we know that the payoff from that can be immense, but it also can be really scary.

And I think one of the reasons it can be scary is because when I'm at work, I want to look,

I want to, I want to seem polished. I want people to look at me when I'm at work, whether it's in the classroom or in my clinical office, in person or virtual, whether I'm advising students or presenting at a conference.

I want them to see me and say, wow, she really knows her stuff. She really has it together.

In fact, I work hard to put that out there.

That's why I might pick out a really nice professional outfit and put together the best

PowerPoint slides that I can and really try to polish my presentation. Because I want to present in a way where I'm holding myself out as an expert on something. And I want to look the part, right?

Whereas when I'm going to soccer with my kids on Saturday morning, you know, my hair might

be unwashed and amassed. And I'm in a t-shirt and, you know, ripped jeans.

And I'm kind of feeling like I'm barely holding it together as a busy working mom.

And I know the busy working moms out there will nod at how what a disparity there may be

between your professional world and your personal world.

And it feels really uncomfortable to think about making a professional connection or an

overture from that vantage point of, you know, I don't look the part here.

I feel vulnerable. I'm not really presenting as my best most together polished self.

So I think that, you know, it's hard to think about networking as something that can happen

everywhere when I'm really centering my polished self into my work life for, you know, certain

work hours. Yeah, I know that's an interesting perspective.

And I can see that I recently in my own therapy session was kind of talking about this disparity

of like that professional self. And then in the part within me that sometimes doesn't feel very professional.

And like having to negotiate that and like hold self compassion for myself when maybe I

don't live up to my own expectations for myself, right? Because I'm juggling so many different things that like certain, certain tasks in my home life may not get the attention that they need.

And that then can become internalized is, you know, that like not enoughness piece.

And so I can see how that could filter over into the networking if we're not fully polished that we're not altogether.

But I also think that it's important for us to be able to be present in the world as not

put together and not having all the answers and having like those rough and tumble days too. Absolutely.

I couldn't agree more because, you know, ultimately, I don't think I knew this earlier in my career.

But I know this now when I'm networking with somebody the same way up when I'm connecting

with them in any forum. But I don't really want to be networking as professional Rachel.

I want to be networking. I want to be connecting with them as a human being. Yeah.

I have this, this story I'll share with you that just came to mind when we were talking.

I have this friend who I met. Gosh.It's got to be about 20 years ago now. Maybe more.

And I will call this a networking story. Although it was really unintentional. It was certainly unintentional networking.

I had no intention to socialize or meet anybody at all.

So I was going on a weekend trip at the time from Philadelphia to New York.

And I get to the train station and I'm standing in line to buy a ticket at a kiosk machine.

And there's one woman in front of me at the kiosk machine buying her ticket.

And the machine is malfunctioning and it's not doing what it should be.

And she is having a time of it. I can just see her blood boiling and her frustration rising. She looks like she's ready to kick the machine. And of course, we know that's not really going to do anything productive.

But it was the only option to get the ticket and get on this train.

So I'm waiting and she is losing. She's slowly evolving. I didn't think about it at the time. I thought about it in hindsight.

I just felt so much empathy for her because it looked like she was having a day. She was having one of those days.

And I leaned forward and tapped her on the shoulder. And she turned around kind of hurried and was like ready to either apologize or maybe tell me to flip off or something. And I said, I totally get it. I had that day yesterday.

And she laughed. And I laughed. And suddenly, this moment that was this totally irritating, frustrating machine not working on a busy night when you're trying to catch a train out of town moment became two women

appreciating the frustrations of life and connecting for a moment over that.

And what I didn't realize I was doing when I said that because I was not thinking, oh,

maybe I should meet somebody or maybe I should network or maybe I need to put myself out there.

I was just being human and having a human response. And we ended up, she was also on the way to New York and we were happened to be on the same train. Eventually, the kerfluffle with the tickets got worked out and we both got ticketed and we got on the train and we sat next to each other and we talked the whole way.

And on the other side of the weekend, coincidentally, we were on the same train on the way back and

we found each other and we sat together and we talked the whole way and we traded phone

numbers and we became really good friends and started meeting for dinner regularly.

Turned out, she was a social worker, she became a regular part of my referral stream and

I hers and we have crossed paths professionally over the years. Wow.

And you know, it was a case of networking, although that was never the goal. Right.

Because we were both messy-haired and unkempted, our most unpolished, not our professional selves

in the way that we think of holding out our professional selves. Right.

Maybe not handling our own frustration in the moment of life's really annoying moments.

And you know, sometimes we're not good at following our own advice in those timeframes and get

the best of us to. Nice to know that we can still connect in that space and with those parts of ourselves

being visible. I try to, you know, I see now that what I was doing was networking, but I didn't think

about it that way at the time. And when I think about that story, I'm reminded that, you know, networking doesn't have to be walking up with a handshake and an outstretched resume saying, "Hi, I'm Rachel, here's what I'm

Doing. How can your work and my work connect?"

Right. Sometimes it just starts with a smile, a joke, a human gesture, something that then opens the

door further. And you know, it was a complete coincidence that she was also an allied health professional

and that we cross pass there. If she wasn't, it still could have been a networking opportunity in a different regard,

Right? The same way that I might not be looking to offer services to the kids on my kid's soccer

team, but maybe there's some, you know, further connection. Right.

I think that there's something that you're emphasizing here, and it has to do with perspective,

it has to do with the way we construct meaning around the topic of networking.

If we're looking at networking as an activity that has a specific outcome, okay, I'm going

to do this in order to get this. That is where I think some of the yuckiness factor comes in like, "Oh, I have to sell myself." But if you look at networking as an opportunity to weave the social fabric of your personal

support system, right? Not just professionally, but personally, your personal support system.

I think it becomes way more palatable of an activity because you can just show up as you

are and be yourself and ask questions and learn about the other people that you're connecting

with without an emphasis of like, "Oh, I have to sell myself." Because that doesn't feel, that feels weird.

It feels weird to, the self-procordedness of it, you know?

Yeah, artificial is a good term, but if you're just having a human experience where you're

connecting with another person, that's totally different and it feels a whole lot easier. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And to that end, you know, tying it in with the things that make you feel more human.

So last week I went to a conference. I was at the National Organization for Arts and Health conference in Cleveland, Ohio, which was a beautiful experience, actually. Held at the Cleveland Playhouse.

I had never been to a conference in a theater, but it was pretty amazing.

And I went because I was presenting with two of my colleagues.

And I had this moment of sort of questioning on my way, on out there, where I kind of thought,

why am I going to this again? Didn't see the exact linear path between, you know, what I was presenting on and what my regular day job is. And you know, when lines aren't so cleanly drawn professionally, I think it's easy to sometimes

get a little bit discombobulated about, you know, which path is this leading to or what

is this on? And I kind of pushed those thoughts out and just kind of thought, you know, I'm going and

this is going to, you know, I'm moving forward in this arts and health community that is

very rich and where there's actually a lot of exciting things happening.

So I get there and they had this networking reception on the first night.

And I walk in and I immediately felt this wave of dread wash over me and I was like, oh,

God, I'm going to do this. And probably some people who know me professionally, both from my university or in the art therapy community might be surprised to hear that, that networking doesn't come easy to me all the

Time. And putting myself out there and taking those initial steps and having those initial conversations

isn't always the easiest thing. In fact, sometimes it feels easier when there was like a specific mission at hand, like

if I'm presenting on a specific topic, I can talk on that, but when it's a little bit

more off the page. And right, not as goal oriented towards a specific outcome, it feels harder.

So I walk in and I was with my two colleagues who also had a similar reaction to me.

They both responded with a, oh my goodness.

And I was a little surprised by that because I view both of them as people that have a really

easy time networking and they can talk to anybody and they seem so outgoing and it seems to

me from where I sit like it comes so easy for them and I know that that's how it looks to

other people when I do it too. But here we all three were having this conversation, oh my goodness.

And it was probably as good as networking party setups can be.

They had a buffet with really good food. They had a live band that was playing really great music.

You got a drink ticket when you walked in and there was a lot of people there and everybody

seemed to be there for the same reason and it was in this beautiful restored 1920s theater in the center of the city.

So all of these great things were there. There was nothing about the setup, but it was just this feeling, perhaps built on expectation that I had about what I was like, here I got a, I got a perform, I got to be on, I got

to figure out a way to, to sell myself for what I'm doing or talk to these accomplished

people that clearly have it all together when, you know, I'm a hot mess. And my colleagues and I had like a little powwow for a moment and somebody, I don't know which one of us said, you know, we were kind of saying encouraging things to each other, kind of pushing ourselves forward to networking.

And somebody said, you know, let's each meet two people. If you talk to, like you don't have to win the whole room over, you don't have to leave with a whole football team full of names.

Like if you talk to two people, that's fine. And I thought, okay, I can talk to two people, that's doable.

And so I felt like now I had my task list. It still felt like work, but it was like a shorter task list than how do I work this room or make my way through it. Well, there were some people that gave little speeches at the beginning, people that were on the board.

And one of those people said something and I thought, oh, well that's interesting what she's

doing, that's an opportunity to connect. So after the many speeches, I walked over to her and I introduced myself and I referenced something that she had said and I said it's interesting to hear that you're doing this

Work. And so that was a point of connection that made it easy to talk to her for a few minutes

and it was based on, you know, my interest, shared interest, her work. And then I thought, okay, I talked to one person good. I got my one person down. I only need one more. This is my mindset at the party.

And I start walking through the room and I'm kind of looking around and seeing, you know, am I going to catch somebody? So I, is there going to be a situation where I can move into a group who's at a cocktail

table or something like that? And I see there's an art table.

So this is what I mean, I said something about like tying your networking to your interest. So I see there's this table filled with art supplies and some of it's like a little bit more project oriented and some of it's kind of open ended, take it where you want. And that's my wheelhouse. I'm like, great.

I don't know what I want to talk to next or what to do. I'm going to go check out the art table.

This is one of the things I've always loved about professional conferences that include

art, whether, you know, I mean, my very first American Art Therapy Association conference

was in 2002 in Washington, DC.

And I went with a friend and I think we spent the entire conference on the floor in a corner

of the art studio. And it was manageable. And then, you know, the expressive therapy summits have always been a rich repository of art making and certain other conferences do too, including the NOAA conference.

So there was an empty chair and I sat down and once I was sitting down and working with

our materials, suddenly networking wasn't work. It was fun. And it came so easy and I met three more people in like a minute. The woman sitting next to me was folding this paper in this amazing way that I had to lean over and ask her about. How did you make that? Oh, where did you get that idea?

And next thing you know, she and I are talking about her work and my work and it's just flowing and I feel like I've known her for 20 years. Because now it's not work. Now we're just two people sitting at the art table playing.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think that that's a really helpful thing to share for people that are struggling with

figuring out how to network with others. Because you're right, it can feel really overwhelming.

It can feel like dreadful. It can feel like work or there's like a performance element to it.

And I feel like there's two different types, right?

There's sometimes where it may be performative.

And you have to get into your like theater-esque kind of persona in order to accomplish those ends.

And then there's the more casual networking which you don't, it's open-ended. It's just the goal is just connection.

And if you can do that while having fun over something where there's a common, like a

commonality or shared interest, it does make it so much easier and more pleasurable.

We had an open house at my practice and we had art, art activities and experiences set up

throughout because we wanted people to stay.

We wanted people to feel comfortable and engage and create and get their hands into things.

And it worked. People that came did stay. I had somebody say it just felt like everybody was so comfortable in your space because people were engaging in this really meaningful way. Yes, they were connecting with other people, but they were having fun with the creative process and engaging with the materials which opened up that ability to talk with whoever was sitting next to them and to develop that exchange. I would have loved that open house.

I know where I would have been. That art table the whole time.

Yeah, I mean, I think to that extent, like you, with a lot of things and people say this about dating and relationships, right? You can meet people a lot of different ways. You might as well do it in concert with activities that are of interest to you. So if I'm partly because if I network, when I sit down at an art table to network with

Someone. I might meet somebody of interest. I might make a connection, but I'm also going to do something I'm already interested in and make art and have a good experience for myself in myself.

And because I'm engaged in something that's meaningful to me and that I like, it's probably

going to lower my defenses and make me more open to connecting with others.

No, true. And I think that that sort of open-ended connecting opportunity is a really important piece of doing

networking in a way that feels more authentic to who we are and less like work.

In my program at Jefferson, I host art studio nights that are open for my students in the

art therapy concentration and in the trauma counseling program.

And I invite my alumni to come back to that and I invite faculty to come. And you know, sometimes students have such tunnel vision. They don't meet anybody outside of their own classes or their own cohort or their own

Year. And networking isn't always so linear like I'm going to talk to this person and I hope it results in a job. It's often sort of the muddy means to the ends. And if you like making art and you go to a studio night and you're there with other people in the same profession who are doing that too, that's already going to lead to something.

And the fruits of that may not be harvested for a long time.

We had an experience years ago where we went as volunteers to a clay studio and constructed

clay masks that were donated to a fundraising event and were there with other art therapists.

And then years later, that connection that I had struck up resulted in an internship placement

for a student. So I couldn't have foreseen it at the time. I didn't know that student. I wasn't looking for something like that. Sometimes, you know, I think not knowing what the fruits of the networking are going to be is kind of part of the fun. I actually think that it's better to have that perspective to go into these experiences

for the purpose of having the experience and being in the moment and whatever that has

to offer with the people that you're engaging in.

Because if you're going there with the purpose of I have to go here in order to get this outcome

or to get, you know, this person to refer people to me or whatever, there's a lot of pressure,

a greater expectation. And I think that just like raises our own anxiety around the experience, which then it

just, I don't know, I think it has an impact on the dynamics of the exchange.

I think you're right. And it also sets up this dynamic where, you know, if I have this objective and I don't

achieve that objective, then I have failed.

And if I'm viewing myself as having failed in that objective, then I'm not open to all

of these other potential outcomes that could result of that. Maybe this person knows somebody.

Maybe there's a connection to be had. Maybe they can help leave me to a supervisor or somebody.

Yeah. I think every time we're engaging with people, whether it's colleagues in a current job

that maybe we don't like and we want to leave, those collegial relationships that you create

there have role over potential for you later on in your future.

That every relationship that we, you know, establishes an important part of that fabric,

right, that tapestry that I'm talking about personally and professionally.

And then even like when you're, I don't know, when you're going into your like, it sounds

strange, but like even my dentist office, right? Like I have been going to the same dentist office for years and had the same hygienist, although I don't need more. She left the practice and went somewhere else which was heartbreaking because I had, we had like this really great rapport. And like when I was opening up my office, I was like sharing with her. And of course she like shared with the dentist who owned the practice and it's like every

time I would come in, she would ask me how my practice was going and you know, you, you

start to develop relationships everywhere that you go.

It doesn't have to be like going to a specific conference or work related event to

build your network and create opportunities for greater connection in your, in your community,

Right? Well, I think what you're speaking to, what you're saying speaks to this idea of like the

authenticity that you, you are, you're not, um, or therapist, Raina and then, you know,

regular person outside of work, Raina, you're Raina and all of those are a part of you

and sometimes you're at work and sometimes you're at rest, but you're still all of who you

are and what you are under every circumstance.

So holding yourself out as who you are and not, I mean, yes, there are some benefits of

segmenting your life and I'm not saying that, you know, work hours should never stop.

That's certainly not the message. I once got a referral from my podiatrist. I wasn't planning on it.

I wasn't, I, I was saying this podiatrist, not because I was networking, not because I was

working for new clients or selling myself. I had an ingrown toenail. I mean, I had to deal with that.

And, um, she's looking over my chart and talking to me and she says, you're an art therapist. What's that?

And so I started, I told her, you know, of course my students do their two minute elevator pitch

early on in their program because as we know, people will ask you what is art therapy and

you will have to explain it.

And she was so interested in that she's had never heard of it before and she thought it sounded

so useful and she could see the potential for it. And for the next several visits every time I came in, she said, what's my art therapist? And she was so excited to have learned that this is a thing and what it is.

And it was interesting when I needed to call up for a refill of a prescription.

I told the receptionist, tell her it's the art therapist because I knew she'd remember

that aspect of me.

But eventually, she made a referral to me because she ran into somebody in her own life and

I was the art therapist that she knew. And so this was sort of professionally beneficial for me, but not because I went into every single sector of life thinking I need to network because I'm marketing my practice because I was

just being me and part of being me is being an art therapist and answering a question

about what that is if somebody is curious. I love that.

I think that takes so much of the pressure off of this whole process, right?

That you can just be yourself and not see enough for the networking process.

So how do you think that we can turn this whole process of networking into opportunities

that, like, connect with things that you're passionate about?

I know we've been talking about how to integrate networking just as part of what you do naturally

and not actually looking at it as a task that you have to do separate from just living

your normal life.

How can we turn these opportunities of connection that we have into things that we're passionate

About? My collaborative opportunities, let's say. That's a great question.

I mean, one, a few things are popping up in my mind.

One thing is, I think it's important to be proud of what you do. Not to say that you always want to have a conversation with everybody who crosses your path about exactly what you do, but I do know a lot of people, mental health clinicians, who might hold back on saying what they do or describing what they do.

And I don't think that helps to further anything. And certainly, it doesn't introduce yourself as an authentic person.

What you do is that you're a therapist, being able to say that and hold that out there

in a way.

And it might mean finding the way to talk about it that you are comfortable with.

I think it has to do with boundary setting, right?

Our comfort level with boundary setting. I know that earlier on in my career, I can think of like one time being at a little pizza place, which was around the corner for my house.

It only had a few like tables to sit at and then it had like a little bar area up at the Front.

It was a really tiny little hole in the wall space.

And I had gone there and the only place to sit that night was up at that little bar space,

which was fine. Except for that, frequently people that were coming in to pick up their dinner would

come and stand there and hang out and wait and pay for their stuff.

And one time this one time that I was there, I was with another girlfriend and we were just

kind of catching up. And a woman who was picking up her dinner started talking to us and did ask what we do and

I did share. And then she proceeded to really divulge a lot of her personal stuff, which it was not necessarily

the most appropriate thing to divulge in that context and setting with somebody that she

didn't know even though I was a therapist.

And early on, I don't think I had the skill set to actually say that to her and say, I appreciate

that you feel comfortable enough to share that with me right now, but it's really not the

appropriate time nor place.

I can give you a card and I can give you some recommendations for people that might be

able to help you, but this isn't the right venue for that.

But I didn't have that skill set at the time. And I've been in the opposite situation where in one case, I was in a social setting and starting to have a conversation with a person who was interesting and the conversation started

out to be one that felt promising. And then when I mentioned that I was a therapist, everything sort of shut down and came crashing down very abruptly because this person was very, very anxious that now that they knew that

I was a therapist that I was clearly going to be analyzing and teasing them apart and unfurling

and diagnosing and sort of, you know, the worst case scenario fears that they had about what

that meant.

And so it didn't allow anything to go forward.

And I, all similarly, this was earlier in my career, didn't have the knowledge or the

skill set or the practice to be able to say, you know, I'm enjoying talking with you.

And the fact that I'm a therapist doesn't mean that I am bringing my work that I do with

my clients into the conversation that we're having now and kind of move past this discomfort

into a place where we could have a more productive discussion.

But I think, you know, finding that way to be both proud about what you do, honest about

what you do, also boundary reading and reading the situation that allows for comfortable,

productive, interesting connections to arise is important.

I also like the idea of, you know, looking at networking as an extension of the stuff that

you like to do anyway, like in the example of being at the conference where I sat down

at the art table, that made it really easy for me.

Suddenly, I was all of my anxieties about putting myself out there and having to meet people

were sort of fell away and I was free to just like create and enjoy my space.

And then I ended up having conversations with several people around me at this art table.

And I would always encourage people to set themselves up for some networking success by finding

the things that they like to do anyway or they enjoy anyway, which could be, you know,

a personal or professional book club or it could be, you know, an activity or a hobby

or a sport or it could be taking a class somewhere or it could be, I mean, any number of things.

Yet, then there's also this piece of like sometimes you do need to flex outside of your comfort zone.

Right? Yeah. Oh, definitely.

Flexing outside of your comfort zone.

I personally think that that's super important as a therapist because that's what we do all

day long as we ask our clients to do things outside of their comfort zone. That's part of growing.

And so if I'm not doing that as well, then I feel a little bit hypocritical.

So I really try to push myself to go out of my comfort zone.

And what I found was that over the years, it was not natural for me to be a networker.

But I feel more of a connector unless of a networker. I feel like that's my view of what I'm doing is I'm building connection. I'm forging connection between myself and the other person that I'm meeting and learning

About.

But I'm also then forging connections between them and the other people that I've met in my

network that I believe it would be beneficial for those people to connect with on some level

or whatever reason that that may be.

And that I'm not just, you know, the goal isn't like, oh, I'm connecting for me, but I'm also

connecting for all of the people that I'm in connection with, the bike and facilitate

that.

It feels really good.

But I think it's also helpful for them in some way.

And then it creates greater opportunities for things like collaboration amongst like,

you know, like-minded activities like you were saying, whether that's, you know, hosting

a book club together or maybe a consultation group together or a training or a writing

Opportunity. You are a connector and I think that you do, you do it in a way that doesn't just benefit you.

I mean, even hosting this podcast and all of the people that you interview, I feel like it's

like an extended networking service that I get to learn about all of these different professionals

around the country and the world who are doing this different kind of work.

Things that's similar to what I'm doing and sometimes that's very different.

But it makes me think that perhaps one of the most important ingredients in networking,

and this is especially true if you're getting out of the mindset of viewing it as a task

and, you know, as work and viewing it more as an extension of the authentic way you carry

yourself as a professional, is that there's great value in being curious.

And you do this all the time when you interview people and talk to people and you learn about

the different kinds of contributions that they're making both in the creative arts therapies

but also in other allied health professions and in the greater world of social service.

And I think that when I approach people, I mean, if you approach people from the standpoint

of be curious, right, you have something to learn from everybody, everybody has something

interesting that they're doing or thinking about or talking about.

And it could be that it sort of exists within one conversation or less in terms of overlapping

with you.

But it also could potentially go much more than that. I mean, certainly I have met my share of people for whom after one conversation, I've learned enough that I don't need to take it forward. I'm sure I've been that person for other people too where they're like, okay, now I know what she's doing next.

There's a lot of people out there that makes sense. But starting with that one conversation, regardless of how you met them or came across them, starting from the standpoint of like, I wonder, I wonder what this person's doing.

I'm curious about how they're overlapping.

I have had the good fortune through some professional colleagues this year of developing this new group

of friends who in some ways are very different from me. They're in some cases different generations, different points of their life, very different professions. One woman is an industrial designer and another is an MD and another is a nurse. And I mean, people that are just doing different work coming at helping people from different

points of education and experience. And yet there's still so many opportunities to overlap and to have interdisciplinary collaboration. And I think it starts from this standpoint of curiosity and I wonder what they're doing.

I wonder what I can learn from them.I wonder what.

And if you find that when you meet somebody or you start learning about somebody that the

questions keep coming for you, that perhaps is a sign that there's something that this

connection is awakening in you. And maybe that can be something that moves forward, whether it's having referrals to your practice or collaborating on a workshop or an article or getting the opportunity to

guess, teach a course or whatever it is. But when you start out from the standpoint of, oh, this person's doing this thing that I never heard of or I didn't know about or I want to learn more and that's neat.

And you know, that's something to capitalize on even if they're from a different background or space from you.

I love that. I think that there's so much more that we can accomplish when we approach connecting

with others from that curious space. And then it opens up the opportunity for really impactful conversation and dialogue to happen. And that then can really, you know, lend itself to that collaborative aspect of things.

Because ultimately, right, if we go back to the old construct of what networking is, right?

I'm doing this in service of advancing my career in some way or my life in some way, whatever

it is, well, that collaboration can be that.

Now, I don't think it's helpful to have that as the definition. I think that that usually is impairing people from actually taking action towards networking. Whereas if you go in with the intent of I'm going to meet somebody, hopefully I'll make a friend. And that's enough.I'm going to learn about somebody else, what they do, what their interests are, who they serve. How, how, who they serve might benefit from people in my network, who I'm serving. That's enough.

It is enough.

And if you're going to a networking event, whether it's the networking mixer at a conference

or something like what you held at your office, which was an opportunity for networking, or

you're at a dinner or something like that. Other people are there with the same agenda. They're thinking the same thing. How do I connect with people? How do I, at ends, what can this lead to?

And you don't have to go in polished, right? You don't have to have your script.

In fact, you're probably less appealing and more of a turn off if you are too scripted or too Polished.

It is those interesting anecdotes, those human pieces, those stories that really make us

want to lean into other people. And that's what makes them want to lean into us is not when we're giving the lecture or sermon in a really clear, clean way. But when we're muddy up to our elbows, we're more appealing perhaps.

When we present as human beings and not as somebody who is perfect.

I mean, I love that my first encounter with this woman that became a good friend was seeing

her have a meltdown at the ticket kiosk in a train station.

And we have joked about that over the years about how funny it is that seeing somebody's, I mean, we know this as therapists, right? But seeing somebody's vulnerability can build connection, can help strengthen the way we

relate to them. But there's still so much fear in that. Right.

And we're willing to turn into it and tune into it that that's where like the fruitfulness

of it happens. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you making the time to talk about this topic today. I think it was a really great discussion. And I hope that it inspires listeners that have been struggling with networking to think

about it from a different perspective and to give it a try from that other place of not

having to be perfect, like that it gives them that permission to just be themselves. Yeah.

And to go in with no agenda, right? Maybe you'll get a client out of it. Maybe you'll get a contract. Maybe you'll get a new friend. Maybe you'll learn something. Maybe you'll realize something that you don't want to do.

Maybe, you know, I mean, there's just the possibilities are endless if you go in considering

them that way. Yeah. Yeah.

Thanks so much for having me.

This was a fun conversation to explore. It was.It was. If listeners wanted to reach out to you and connect with you, where can they do that? And I'm always available by email and I'm happy to share my email.

You can share it in the in the show notes also, but it's Rachel Brandau at Gmail. And LinkedIn is a great way to contact me as well. Dr. Rachel Brandau. Yeah.

LinkedIn. All right. I'll put those in the show notes.

Thank you so much. And I look forward to talking to you soon about your new book.

Thank you. As always, thanks for listening to the Creative Psychotherapist podcast.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of the show with Dr. Rachel Brandau.

And I I'm going to have her on again shortly in the next, I don't know, month or so.

And we're going to be talking about her new book that is coming out in early 2024. The Empowerment Wheel, which focuses on art therapy interventions using an empowerment based

approach to helping individuals that have been in various types of relationship abuse.

And I've had the good fortune to be able to read it in advance and it's awesome. And so I can't wait to talk with her and her co-author author. Her name is Astra Cesarney. I think I'm pronouncing her last name correctly. I may have it pronounced wrong. But it's excellent. And it is available currently for pre order on Amazon.

And again, it's called the Empowerment Wheel if you're interested in that.

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed this episode and perhaps you're inspired to think about networking in a different way.

And I look forward to sharing the next episode with you next week.

And if I knew what it was, I would let you know, but I don't even know what it's going to be yet.

So it'll be a surprise for both of us.

All right, stay creative, everyone.